Jackson’s mom gets custody – Rowe gets visitation
By Alexandra Heilbron on July 30, 2009 | 92 Comments
Michael Jackson‘s mother, Katherine Jackson, has been granted full permanent custody of her late son’s three children after reaching a agreement with Debbie Rowe, the mother of his two oldest, Prince Michael, 12, and Paris, 11. However, Rowe has been granted “meaningful visitation rights” with her two children. “It’s an agreement, an agreement for the best interests of the children. This is not a money deal. This is not about money,” L. Londell McMillan, Katherine Jackson’s attorney, told The Early Show Thursday morning. “All of the parties are resolved. There is no situation better for these children than for them to be raised and reared in the loving care of Mrs. Katherine Jackson,” he said. He added that the children will be well taken care of, according to the will. “That estate is worth, in my estimation, a couple of billion dollars,” he said. “You hear $500 million. Don’t buy it.”
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I think, at least for now, this is probably the best option. If Debbie was not involved, or involved only minimally, the kids should remain in familiar territory and get to know her better. It’s bad enough to lose a parent at such a young age, but to have to leave their home, or go to a home that would most likely not be familiar, they need something stable in their lives right now.
I’m not sold on this idea…after all, wasn’t Mrs. Jackson present when her innocent young children, “reared in her loving care” suffered at the hands of their bully of a father and stood by whilst it happened?
Considering Michael choose Katherine to be guardian in his will, and the fact that she no longer lives with Joe, I think this is probably the best option. I’m still surprised, though, that Debbie wants to see them now, but didn’t seem to have much interest before Michael died. It’s making me wonder if she just enjoys the spotlight, and if this newfound interest will fade.
that’s a good question tg. Why now if not before. You don’t just wake up and say “today I want to be mommy”. If you don’t have the motherly instinct, it doesn’t just appear miraculously
maybe she wanted to be a mother all along but MJ wouldnt let her? i dont think they would bring that out into the spotlight if he refused to allow her to see her kids.
oh, also, i dont think his mother should have those kids. because she is still married to joe he can basically walk back into her life any time he wants (which im sure she wouldnt stop, if she couldnt even be bothered to stop the abuse of her own children) and then force these children into performing as well as abusing them.
good points, mandee, feel MJ’s mom a really poor choice…also I strongly feel to be raised outside of “familiar” Neverland would be a very good thing for these kids, open their eyes to the real world whilst still at an impressionable young age…
I am surprised anyone would cite MJ’s choice in his will as being a reason his ma should raise those children, particularly when MJ’s choices in many other critical areas in his own life (i.e. his drug use) was the very reason he was branded with making extremely poor life choices in so many articles on this website…
Back when MJ and his siblings were kids, it was extremely difficult for a woman to leave her husband for any reason, because all too often the husband would get the kids, so maybe that is why she stayed with him then? I don’t think it’s that she didn’t “bother” to stop the abuse, I think she likely had very few, if any, options.
And Debbie said long ago that she had these kids as “gifts” to Michael, that they were his kids, not hers.
tributegirl on August 3, 2009 3:47 PM
What’s with the ‘helpless female’ card?
i dont care what the reasons are, when you ALLOW someone to abuse a child YOU are just as guilty and terrible as they are.
I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again if ROWE wanted to see the kid’s, all she had to do was call a reporter and tell them she was being stopped by MJ or his family. The rag mag’s would of been all over the story.Front page news POOR MOTHER BANNED FROM SEEING HER CHILDREN.ROWE couldn’t be bothered because her gift’s to MJ were being well PAID FOR. I don’t believe for one minute that she ever wanted anything to do with them, she got her money plus a monthly cheque.I believe she made a little fuss after MJ’S passing only on the advise of her lawyer, and souly for the purpose to continue receiving her MONTHLY CHEQUE’S that may have been stopped.Her lawyer’s definatly wern’t stupid she played the careing mother card for the public, but personally I believe this was done so MJS family would continue to pay her.If she cared at all she would of been with them at MJS memoral and nothing or nobody could of stopped her. With all the reporters being there, MJS family wouldn’t of brought any negitave attention to the kid’s or themselve’s especially with custody of the kid’s still not resolved.Rowe may go see them once or twice just to make herself look good to the public, but i personally don’t think so. That is unless her lawyers suggest it would make her look like a careing mom,and i use this term loosely.Then again she might just slink into the background just like she did for the past 11year’s or so hopeing not to be noticed again. Money,Freedom and her horse’s all her creature comfort’s covered for the rest of her life. In my eye’s her only redemming quality is she can’t be bothered with MJS children.
100 percent agree, mandee…there are ALWAYS options to abuse…
mandee We know the kid’s can’t stand their father.Now why is it that they love their mother so very much? Could it be that she herself was also abused by her husband,it’s obivious that we’ll never know all that happened in their home.Why do they continue to see her and visit her if she was in anyway to blame for the abuse to her kid’s,why would Michael leave the kid’s in her care and why is she bringing up some of his sibling’s children? They all definetly love and trust their mom,that can’t be denied.Think about it,if she didn’t do all she could to stop the abuse the kid’s wouldn’t go near her at all.They would treat her just like they do their dad.This is just a different perspective to think about,i know i have.
i never said that they dont love her NOW. when my brothers best friend was being abused by his mom AND his dad, we moved him into our house. when he grew up, he still wanted to have a relationship with his mother, but her new boyfriend abused him as well and then she kicked him out so that she could keep the boyfriend that abused him. he still wants to love his mother, he is still trying to have a relationship with her now that he is fully grown. i said in other articles i can see what living without a mother can do to someone (because of my cousin) and it tears you apart. just because the jackson kids forgive and perhaps love their mother NOW doesnt mean they did back then. it also doesnt mean that she made any attempt to stop their father from hurting them. i still think she is just as disgusting as the dad is, because when you have A CHILD and someone is abusing you, its no longer about YOU. i dont care how scared, or terrified you are, i dont care if you think you have no options or are helpless etc, when it comes to your kids NOTHING ELSE should matter. they should come first, before YOUR fears or stupidity. what you allow another person to do to YOU is completely different then when you allow that same person to harm a CHILD that is incapable of defending their selves. no matter what anyone on here or anywhere in the world tries to tell me, this is one matter i will NOT EVER change my views on. i still believe this mother is just as bad as mjs father was and she should not be allowed near ANY of their children.
mandy an joanne dont know what they talk about.just craziness.think it so easy to leave an be abuse.must be nice to live in perfect world.why mandys coment come on today but have last night time? bad girl mandy
and yes, it IS easy to leave an abuser when you have the will to do it. i know from personal experience thanks.
yes, mandee, we’ve talked about this before and been there as well…
no, anusperson, you are so far off base, you have no idea what you are talking about. mandee and I have never lived in a perfect world, far far from it and we are NOT saying it is easy, so please don’t attach your incorrect misinterpretations to our feelings on such a vile topic as abuse is.
granted, it may not be “easy to leave an be abuse” but it is in a word…attainable
Your right it is easy to leave an abuser NOW but back in the late 60’s and into the 70’s it wasn’t so easy. The police didn’t get involved in what they called domestic abuse it didn’t matter, even if you had broken bone’s or mark’s on ya it was up to you to resolve the problem.They didn’t have all the resorces that they do now for woman and their kid’s to take them in and protect them or hide them from their abuser.Back then even if the hospital called the police they came and in their own word’s we gave him a good talking too!!!!and left the woman to deal with it! THIS I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
Oh yea i forgot family, well back then they said the same, go back and work it out! Can’t forget friend’s can i, the response was i would but my husband won’t let me. So if you didn’t have any money of your own, you were screwed.
gypsy on August 4, 2009 10:06 AM
Totally agreed!
gypsy on August 4, 2009 10:51 AM
Also agreed, we don’t know what happened, maybe she did try, maybe she didn’t. Also, I didn’t know she was bringing up other grandchildren, who’s kids is she raising?
demigod on August 3, 2009 9:07 PM
LOL! Back then, a female was often very helpless when it came to the legal system, and custody of her children, etc. Also, there were not as many jobs available to women back then, so it was even that much harder for a single mother to support her children. I’m not saying it is like that now, I’m talking about back then!
i dont care when it was, my mother raised 4 kids on her own for the first 5 years of my life (in the 80s) because my dad was abusive and she left him. she worked 2 full time jobs to support all 4 of us, and none of her kids were EVER abused, nor saw the abuse she suffered from my dad back when he was an alcoholic. therefore, it WAS possible, its just that these women clearly didnt care enough about their children to change their childrens lives. who cares what your family and friends say? i dont care what resources were or were not available back then. my family didnt know what was going on with me and my ex, the one friend i had that did know told me i was a liar, i never called the police or went to a shelter etc, i just said straight up to get away from me and that was the end of it. its all about backbone. you need the COURAGE to walk away, and your children should be all the courage you need. anyone that stays with an abusive man OR woman after having A CHILD with them is selfish and deserves whatever they get.
by the way, thanks joanne, and your entire comment is spot on.
Tributegirl I believe she has 8 other grandchildren,not including MJ’S that she is bringing up.They are her other son’s kid’s,when they split up with their wife’s, either the woman didn’t want them and the son’s brought them to granma’s to be looked after, i don’t really know.I do know that their oldest sister Reebe live’s with her mom and a couple are her’s,i’m not sure but i think 1 or more son’s also live with mom.Grandma even homeschool’s them.I’m not sure but 1 is suppose to be janet’s but i read that in one of the rag mag’s so that’s very unlikely.Since the old man is no longer liveing there she is a much more contented soul.The grankid’s range in age’s 5 or 6 up to 17 year’s i believe.It was on TV a couple of week’s ago,i missed a little bit but saw about an hour or so of the interview.
Oh wow, gypsy, I never knew that! That is amazing, esp at her age.
mandee, no need to get defensive, I wasn’t attacking your comments, I was just saying that back then it was a whole different world. The 60’s were totally different than the 80’s, I think it’s great that your Mom was able to get out of a bad situation, and support her children herself, but back in the 60’s, it was hard for a woman to even get ONE full time job, let alone two, and the pay was much less fair than it is now, or than it was in the 80’s. Also, in the 60’s, often if a woman left her husband, he ended up getting the children and the mother wouldn’t even get visitation, so for many women living like that, it was like they had to choose between two evils, staying with their husband while he abused the family, or leave, and end up having him get the kids and doing God knows what to them and her not even able to be there.
Btw, I’m not excusing the abuse, abuse of any type makes me sick. I’m just saying that I think she probably had very little, if any, choice.
I distinctly said in the 60’s and 70.s and if you don’t care why bother to give opinion on something you wern’t even around to experience, since you were born in the 80’s i believe you mentioned.Also your promoting abuse now cuz a woman deserves it!!, if she has a child and doesn’t leave, it doesn’t take much backbone in the 90’s when your by yourself to tell a dude to drift.Let’s talk courage i saw more courage and backbone in the 60’s than i’ve ever saw in the last 10 year’s or more, you kid’s got it made nowdays, yet you still complain. It doesn’t take much to run home or collect welfare or not work or collect UI. You don’t believe in spanking but beating a woman is OK! Abuse come’s in many form’s the worst is mentally that stay’s with you forever, you’ll learn that when you grow up. Just like you’ll learn that you have your own mind and not be swayed by other people to change your comment’s.IF your friend knew what was going on and still called you a liar,she wasn’t very observant or a friend!!! I USUALLY say what i think, so here’s my thought’s something extremely bad happened to you or someone very close to you as a child and you definetly need to get some help to cope with whatever it was.I’m not being mean i just sense something’s not right.
again, agree with all your last comments, mandee…what a wonderful role model to see your mom take on such a tremendous child rearing task on her own and have the courage to walk away from the abuse. It must have been a very difficult time for her but she deserves a lot of praise for all her efforts.
and gypsy, you are really way off on your last comments. I think backbone is backbone, whether in 90’s, 80’s, 70’s….telling mandee it doesn’t take much backbone in the 90’s is just plain wrong. You condemn her for not being around in the 80’s to give an opinion on abuse, then you give an opinion on her not posessing backbone when dealing with her own situation? Were you around her there to really know the situation? No.
and please explain your comment, “Also your promoting abuse now cuz a woman deserves it!!” What is that???? And who are you speaking to?
and…”You don��t believe in spanking but beating a woman is OK”
Wow, what on earth are you talking about, you are all over the place…
I sense “something is not right” too….
tributegirl, sorry i didnt mean to sound like i was being defensive or attacking you either. i know you werent attacking my comments, i just feel very strongly about my views on abuse and sometimes i tend to get a little worked up about it lol.
gypsy no need to be rude about WHEN i was talking about, i dont care what year it was, they still could have left. also, i am not “promoting” anything. if you are dumb enough to stay, you deserve it. bottom line. and collecting ui because my work closed and there are no jobs, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. i apply for jobs every day, i email, i go out and look, i go on interviews, the whole 9 yards. i am ENTITLED to ui because i PAID INTO IT from MY checks so that when my work DID close i had something to live off of. that doesnt make me a bad person, or any less of a person. i didnt personally cause my work to close, nor am i sitting around and collecting ui without looking for work. and complain? when have i complained about what happened to me? i made it perfectly clear i know what happened to me was my own fault for staying with someone that abused me and forced me to have sex with them. thats NOT me complaining. and its easier to walk away when youre alone? where do you get your ideas from? its HARD to walk away when you have no one backing you up, no one that cares enough about you to even BELIEVE what youre telling them is happening to you. BUT **I** still found the courage to walk away didnt i? im not complaining about my life, im explaining. if someone that had as low self esteem as i did, someone that felt completely all alone and depressed and like they deserved everything they got (like i did) can walk away, how come women that have support and children to worry about CANT? what makes them so damn helpless!? and yes, youre right, bad stuff HAS happened to me, i dont NEED to see ANYONE to try to make it better because it doesnt effect me in whatever way you seem to think it does. i really dislike you right now, and im really really mad at you for that comment.
thanks for your comment joanne. im going to bed, im really mad right now…i cant believe how mad gypsy made me !!!! it usually doesnt bother me what is said on here, but talk about being insensitive !
im with gypsy.its easier for single people to leave they can live on street if they have to but not with kids and kids dont understand why they cant see daddy.mandy you think you mother have no backbone an is selfish an got what she deserve,?, she have 4 kids with you dad before she leave him.i guess you kids all born together at same time an to never see abuse from him, no way.you said he an alcholic so yes kids do see an hear.joanne says you mom a wonerful role model but she stay to have 4 kids an that dont make sence.she no better than mrs jackson.guess you mom dident care enough about the 4 kids an need to get a backbone
Let me be harsh on this topic, I think it’s needed.
Any woman, IN ANY ERA, who CHOOSES to stay with an abusive husband/father lacks PRIDE,DIGNITY,and SELF RESPECT. And is a poor excuse of a mother!
Filing for divorce in the 60’s wasn’t an option?? The courts still favoured mothers in custodies back then. It did for my mom (though ironically she was the abuser). Point being, it wasn’t easy for her, she was a ‘starving artist’ but took odd jobs and managed to support me and my bro.
Btw, Mama Jackson probably condoned the abuse..it was normal in the ‘hood.
In addition, what kind of a LOSER LOWLIFE needs to call the police to settle domestic disputes/abuse time and again, and drag your personal sh!t thru the courts? These people deserve each other. End of story.
Mandee, you’ve shown great character and resolve.
..As did your mom as well, Mandee.
Someone made a good point above that mandee has no place to talk cuz her mom is no better even though she eventually did leave. Lots of women eventually leave but her mom didn’t leave no sooner. My dad was an alcoholic but didn’t physically abuse but we kids knew that life wasn’t right, that it wasn’t normal that he was always drinking. The police and court do not settle domestic disputes, they intervene to try to help stop the abuse but nothing is settled and no woman/man ever deserves an abuser or to be called a loser lowlife
the same person who makes this “good point” Shauna says in SAME post it’s not easy to leave when you have kids…then continues to discredit mom for staying…
it is a pile of contradictory statements…
re-read that post, if you can stomach it…
actually, to those of you that are criticizing my mom for staying with my dad, the funny thing about it, only 2 of us are from the same father in this house. me and my sister, and she is 16 years older than me. my mom wasnt with my dad while my sister and my oldest brother were younger, she was only with him long enough to have my sister then left because of the abuse, then she had my other brother with another man and was told she only had so long to have another baby so called my dad to get me. so no, i wasnt lying when i said that none of us ever saw her abused, she didnt live with him after he started abusing her, she got rid of him ASAP. and she refused to live with him or give him another chance until i was 5 years old and he guaranteed her he would never drink again or abuse her, and he hasnt yet.
yer if my mother had of stayed for years and allowed my dad to abuse her, yes it would have been her own fault for having no self esteem, respect or backbone to leave him. i am not biased, as a matter of fact, i do recall admitting MYSELF that i deserved what i got for staying with my abusive boyfriend for the entire 7 months i stayed. so why would my opinion change if it was my mother who had stayed?
and i have no place to talk? what a laugh. ive been on this site for about a year now, how long have you and gypsy been here shauna? not very long at all. so perhaps its the 2 of you that have “no place to talk”
thanks demigod, i really respected and agreed with your last 2 comments.
joanne, right again.
If anyone read all my comment’s they would understand what i was talking about,LOSER-LOWLIFE THAT WOULD BE THE NOSEY NEIGHBOUR’S who took it upon themselve’s to call police,going to hospital with broken bone’s and black eye’s,telling them you fell down stair’s that would be HOSPITAL PROCEDURE.MANDEE’S LAST STATEMENT if you stay with abuser you deserve what you get!and again if your dumb enough to stay you deserve what you get!The comment’s about backbone wasn’t directed at mandee, it was to all kid’s in general,as to how much easier in the 90’s it was and is to leave especially with no children.The comment’s about going back home,collecting money from all resource’s was also directed at kid’s nowaday’s.It was a general comment as was the resource’s that are available now that wern’t available back in the 60’s,70’s that give’s woman a better chance to leave and start over again.The last comment was directed to mandee and was not said to hurt her, and if you sense something wrong with me, i’ve got wide shoulder’s just spell it out!!!!! As to your statement about lacking pride,dignity and respect that’s what a man intend’s to do when he beat’s you down, but as the saying go’s WHAT DOESN’T KILL YOU WILL ONLY MAKE YOU STRONGER!!!!I clearly stated that woman who had NO SUPPORT back then from anyone,had a much harder time leaving. In mandee’s comment she clearly stated” how come woman that HAVE SUPPORT and children can’t leave,that’s total polar opposite’s from eachother.When i submit this comment it doesn’t make me right about all thing’s said,it’s how I feel about the topic.I really don’t f@@@en care what people think of me, that i learn’t very early in life,I don’t play game’s period!!!!!
Demigod, sorry about the senseing something wrong part, I see that was jo anne’s work.
mandee on August 5, 2009 1:30 AM
No problem. I just didn’t want another misunderstanding to happen between us, because that seems to be when we fight.
I think everyone on here has really good points, and in a lot of ways are actually agreeing with each other, but I think just some of the wording is causing a misunderstanding.
gypsy, it irks me that you always have to fight with someone. seriously, you basically said there was something wrong with me and that i need to see a shrink because of what happened to me in the past, joanne was merely stating that as far as shes concerned its not me that has something wrong, its you. you brought that comment on yourself. i still stand by everything i said, and you shouldnt be so insensitive to other people and what they went through. still, if you stay, you deserve it.
tributegirl, i know what you mean by the misunderstandings causing fights with us. thats also why i was letting you know i wasnt trying to be rude or defensive with you at all, i know thats how the tone sounded though when i went back and read it. and yes, it sounds like everyone agrees with most of whats being said, but some people on here could use a bit more sensitivity when they speak to someone thats been through this type of situation.
Ok, good, as long as we are ok now. I really hate it when we fight, because when we get along, we get along really well.
As far as gypsy, I haven’t had any problems with her and really like her as well, so I’m hoping the two of you can work this out. Like I said before, your opinions actually seem to be very similar, with maybe some variations, but I think feathers got ruffled somewhere along the line, and that’s what it seems to be all about now.
i agree. we get along fabulous when we get along. and usually i agree with gypsy and i have no problems with her, im not even sure what made me so mad last night lol. i think it was mainly because i was tired and she seemed like she was being a b!tch. meh. whatever. she really needs to not talk about my situation when she knows nothing about it. im not judging her or her situation.
MANDEE i want to clear one thing up, when i suggested you needed to see someone to help you cope .I was talking about a best friend or a sibling you felt very close to ,that you could confide in.I in no way meant a shrink as i have been there and their fu@@@n useless,i wouldn’t send my worst enemy to those slimey creep’s!!i don’t know your situation, but i would never condone a man touching a woman in any shape or form,nor do i feel a woman should blame herself for any type of abuse a man does to her.My dad used to say a man is not a man if he lay’s his hand’s on a woman,i’ll leave you with that thought.
hey go see the friend that called ya a liar. She knows ya so she’d know if your lyin. hey gypsy not all dem shrinks are useless, they write scrips for pretty good stuff man. So how are a man and women suppose to get down and get it on if a man can’t touch a woman in any shape or form? And if he does touch women and that doesn’t make him a man what does it make him? I’ll leave you wit dat thought.
gypsy, ok then sorry about the anger. i mistook what you said.
“Cheez” first of all, learn how to spell and complete a proper sentence. second of all, no my friend wasnt right when she said i was “lyin”. it was her cousin i was dating, clearly she is going to take his side, i showed her the bruises, the purple finger prints he left on me, the bruises around my throat…she just chose not to listen to me. and also, gypsy clearly meant a man cant VIOLENTLY touch a woman. and she is right, any man that hurts a woman isnt a man at all, he is a coward and a low life. perhaps the reason you are defending abusive men is because you ARE one? “I’ll leave you wit dat thought.”
The person who made the good point said its not as easy to leave when you have kids in tow compared to being alone and leaving and i understand it. I did agree because mandee was going on how her mom never stayed but she must have to get 4 kids okay 3, big diff. right? Still she took him back to have a last baby before he changed for the better so she’s worse then any mom who stays from what i see. And i understand a woman even a mom who stays sorta. It must be hard to break free from that but once you’re already free you don’t go back just cuz you want a last kid. Jo-Anne how can you think her moms a wonderful role model? She’s not cuz she went back just to have another child with an absentee dad. She didnt know he’d change 5 years after. Mandee i don’t care if youve been on here for 10 years. You said gypsy need not talk of your situation when she knows nothin about it but you talk about the situation of women who stay and say thay deserve it.
you obviously didnt read my comment AT ALL. my mom had TWO KIDS with MY DAD and we are 15 years apart. she wasnt with my dad after he started abusing her, she only called him because she only had so long left to have a baby and wanted 2 of her FOUR children to have the same father. i also made it pretty clear that she didnt have anything to do with him until i was 5 years old and he swore he wouldnt drink or abuse her again, and he didnt. she didnt GET BACK TOGETHER with him, she only slept with him. lol. i dont see anything wrong with what she did, she didnt let him beat her, or pretend she was too helpless to get away, my mom is a great role model. SHE LEFT even when it was hard for her to support the one kid she had with someone else, the kid she had with my dad and then after she got pregnant (by someone else) with my brother. and no, gypsy shouldnt talk about my situation because its completely different than other abused women. i dont sit around looking for pity, crying, pretending im too helpless to get out etc. but i AM right when i say women that stay deserve what they get. because i AM someone that was abused, i KNOW that this statement is true, and i also have every right to talk when i was once an abused woman myself. as far as i know gypsy wasnt in my situation, shes not a part of my life or family etc, so she doesnt have any right talking about it because all she knows is the bits and pieces i said online so that people would understand why i think the way that i think. and as far as im concerned youre a pretty rude person. youre still going on an on about my family as if you know what happened. you dont, even though i made it perfectly clear in my last comment my mother didnt STAY WITH or GET BACK TOGETHER WITH my dad until she was sure he wouldnt go back to his old ways. and, he hasnt. hes a great guy when hes sober. now, i know youre going to yap about how “i dont know what the other abused women are going through” but i do. you have 2 options, stay and let him abuse you until he possibly murders you, or grow the hell up and walk out. whats so hard about that?
so, mandee’s mom made some mistakes, shauna, she protected her children from abuse through all of her difficult experiences, raised them on her own and I am sure had her share of suffering over those many years…
putting your children above all else is what she did and that counts for a lot in my opinion.
we on here will never know exactly what the many facts were, she is not on here herself to defend her choices, so your limited knowledge of her is, well just that…limited….
everyone makes mistakes right? Most women protect their kids and that is why they take the beatings. We don’t know mandee, maybe gypsy has been in this situation and just hasn,t mentioned it but shes still allowed an opinion and an opinion on you too when you broadcast you’re business. What makes you think your so right? Just cuz i don’t agree with you doesnt make me rude either. Your mom didnt know he would change 5 years down the road but still wanted him to father a kid, doesnt seem to me that she cares about any of the 4 kids cuz who intentionally want their kids to grow up with out a dad?
i also read on here on and off sometimes and have seen Jo-anne and mandee put someone else on here down completely for her parenting and being a single mother (nancy) cuz she mention she was abused and left. I dont recall her sayinhg maybe she did, how long she stayed in the situation with her kids but it dont matter she left and you tried to beat her down for it you two. Now, i dont care to get involved in the squabbling you guys get goin with her i just find you hypocriticle here.
get it right, Shauna…I commented on her vulgarity prominently displayed on her posts that I felt (in my opinion) was not commendable of good motherly traits….I also explained on here I felt strongly a person’s character on line would in some way, however small or large that way be, “spill into their real life”…also (in my opinion) feel strongly about an abused woman subjecting her young impressionable children to continuously witness abuse and should exercise options to remove them from such….
I stand by what I said still, you trying to spin it to your own version and then insist you are not interested in getting involved in the squabble is not only transparently inaccurate but, you got it…hypocritical…
ya i read some stuff you wrote, i also read vulgarity from you and others here, dont mean nothin. And maybe she didnt subject her kids to that continuously, you guys dont know but are giving gypsy your hypocriticle comments. i’m not spining nothin just seems like you 2 always have to be right, maybe i should just stick to reading on and off cause nothin anyone says here is good enough for you but i dont care, you guys did try to beat her down for it when she even got out. Mandee really did but you went right a long with her, i read it and i bet lots of people did here, so you should stop spining.
i never “beat her down” for leaving. i told her it was ridiculous that she stayed long enough to have KIDS with that man. even if i didnt have a father, it wouldnt have changed anything. i never needed 2 parents. and i never said youre rude because you “dont agree” with my comments. i think youre rude to try to insult my mother who went out of her way to be sure none of us were abused, worked her a*ss off to support us, made sure we didnt have an alcoholic father present and taught us the self esteem we would need to have the guts to walk away from an abusive relationship. (7 months isnt as bad as those women that stay and have childREN with the man, allow him to abuse THEIR KIDS and THEN leave.) joanne hasnt supported me and went along with me EVERYTIME i have said something. she chooses what she believes or agrees with and states her opinion. yes me and nancy have had our share of fights, funny you will defend her right now, but i dont hear you saying anything when she told me i deserved to be raped and on and on. and if you were READING what was said whats with this comment : “Mandee really did but you went right a long with her, i read it and i bet lots of people did here, so you should stop spining.” ?? im sure that if you read you would have known that the only parts joanne agreed with are the ones where i told her it was disgusting to STAY with a man and have MULTIPLE children and allow him to abuse them. but, then again, you do know EVERYTHING dont you? also, i never said i “have to always be right” i have my opinion, and you have yours. perhaps next time its about MY home life and family, you could mind your manners and then no one could call you rude?
joanne, thanks again for everything. im curious, do you find it strange a certain someone appears to be MISSING from tribute and now someone that sounds very familiar is posting under a name “Shauna” ? accusing us of the very same things the other person was? disagreeing in the same way the other one was? the only difference is, she appears to have dumbed down her comments. i wonder if she finally took my advice after all and changed names to “prove” we were only “attacking” her because of the “name that was attached to the comment” ?
what are you even talking about? So now you acuse me that i am nancy cause shes not here? i was just pointing out that your moms no better. You make her out to be a saint but she stayed and had childREN with the man as your condeming nancy for. And ya Jo-anne went a long with what you said. i dont care though i just had to point it out cause you make your mom out so good. You did say you are right in you’re other comment. And now yuou say i’m rude cause you air your dirty laundry here. i dont appreciate you basically calling me dumb either. i do understand why some women stay and i think its great if they get away especially with there kids. Dont go back!
i never tried to make my mother out to be a saint, i said if she can do it why cant everyone else? and if youre going to accuse me of things, youre damn right ill accuse you of things. sorry “acuse”. and nancy STAYED living with the man to HAVE her children, my mother didnt. also, i dont know why you feel the need to drag nancy into this, she hasnt even been on here (unless you ARE nancy?) and i think its pathetic to sink low enough to drag someone into a conversation that has nothing to do with them, when they arent even posting on here. so, how about you find something new to b*itch about? if nancy wanted to complain to me about what was said in the past, im sure she would be on here telling me. and i dont care what you “appreciate” when you talk bad about my family and about me. i can “air my dirty laundry” anywhere i like. if you dont like it, mind your business. didnt your parents teach you that?
so all you got on me is my spelling mistakes? i guess you know nancy personally right? i think i’m right about you here and when you air you’re dirty laundry all over the place, someone will stand up and tell you it stinks. i’m sorry to nancy for mentioning this but i bet she would tell me too if i was outta line. i’m not mad at you mandee i just think you have a double standard here.
Mandee i never once brought up your mom or dad so why is it that i’m accused of starting fight’s,i’ve had one disagreement with Alon i believe and the other’s who shared her opinion.If i started any more let me know,other than the one we had here and i explained what i meant to you about my comment,AUG 5TH 10.53.I really don’t think that sticking up for the two little dudes is starting a fight.I’ve been called all sort’s of names here but i really don’t give a f**k what the one worm say’s to me or the other for that matter. i don’t know you,nor do i condem you,i don’t bring up your family,so what problem do you have with me?
wow mandy, what do you bother with these two? seems their ONLY angle (besides atrocious spelling) is to rip you apart, if you re-read their stuff, it doesn’t even make one valid point, none of it…
the real lip service is they KEEP on insisting they don’t care what anyone says, they don’t give a…..yet, (coupled with immature name calling insults at those that disagree with them) how obviously contradictory they are…
you, in the other hand, at least explain your points and your thoughts on the subject, good job…
here we go with a know it all about spelling again.i’m not trying to rip mandee apart just trying to get her to see her double standard and me and gypsy both make good points if you could see past you’re friendship or whatever it is you guys call it. i never called names either Jo-anne, mandee has called me a few so put you’re money where your mouth is and point out my name calling.
JoAnne Do you really think that being called a worm even come’s close to being called a LOSER-LOWLIFE, LACKING PRIDE ,DIGNITY ,SELF RESPECT,POOR EXCUSE FOR A MOTHER,and all the rest of your trash talk is in the same ballpark. My comment’s started with the custody topic then escalated up from there! Atrocious spelling error’s,i think not,riping mandee apart,not even close,i gave her my opinion.If you think worm is insulting i can do so much better,believe me you don’t fool me for one second I got your number. Straight up you may fool the younger crowd with your ass kissing but I got many year’s of experience dealing with your type.If you don’t like my vulgar mouth too fu###ng bad, get my drift i’m quite sure you get my deeper meaning!!!!!!!!!
To the younger crowd,please don’t take offence at the point I was putting across to joanne.Freedom of speech is for all age’s,and i’ll apologize right now if anyone take’s it as a direct insult. It wasn’t meant to be sorry,. my bad
you have “many years experience” yet use the phrase “my bad”?????
how can I even take you seriously?
I PUT THAT IN JUST FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
aw….I’m touched…you care…you really care!!!! haha
first of all shauna, you were disrespectful and i dont see a double standard anywhere. i made it clear more than once that if my own mother stayed and allowed a man to abuse her, she deserved it. i made it clear if she allowed a man to abuse her children, i would have no respect for her. you continue to carry on your lame comments in an attempt to bother me, which its not working. the only one that managed to get a rise out of me on this topic was gypsy, and it turned out it was simply a misunderstanding on my part. so, you can type until your fingers fall off, and i wont give a damn. i have no reason to continue to try to defend myself, or my mother. the people on here that MATTER (the REGULARS) agree with me and see my point, it seems that youre the only one that is too self centered to read my comments for what they are.
gypsy, i never said to you just now that you started a fight. i havent said anything to you since i told you i was sorry that it was a misunderstanding. shauna is the one that insisted on bringing all that crap up, so i was merely explaining to her why i said what i said to you.
people that have a problem with others sharing their personal stories online, should have a computer to begin with. most people share their life and personal stories with people online because its easier than telling people in real life. mainly based on the fact that they will never meet these people, they will generally get the TRUTH and their honest opinion BECAUSE they will never meet these people. but anyone being rude and trying to cause a war or insult me or my family simply because they are bored, are nothing but pathetic low lives that have probably never actually LIVED a day of their life. when you have been abused by someone, then come back and talk to me. im sure when you walk away from them, your views on not only MY life, but my mothers and other abused womens lives, will change.
i agree with everything you said joanne, except the way you spelled my name in the first comment…lol 😛
sorry i meant SHOULDNT have a computer to begin with
my bad, mandee…..hahahahahahahaha !!!!!!
Well Joanne, your comment at 8.16am may have fooled some, but I caught the play. You purposely said “these 2”
“their only angle”,”their stuff”, and “the lip service” really was a clincher.I didn’t know you like to make your friend look bad by agreeing with you. Definetly PATHETIC, Anyone who read your spewing knows, I’m the only one who says I don’t give a f@@k what people say to me.On top of that ya f@@ked up by saying the name calling, cuz i was the only one who called you a Worm. The other girl,Shauna didn’t call anyone name’s,she even called you on it,and you never got back to her at all!!So tell me does it give you a thrill to belittle your friend’s this way? Humour me I really need a laugh!!!!!!!!!! Sorry Mandee but she really did a number on you.
who did a “number” on me? and like i said, i really dont care. as far as im concerned you all need to shut your mouth about things im discussing with others and mind your own business. clearly “she” needs to find a hobby rather than trying to cause s*hit on a GOSSIP site.
who do you mean mandee as the she you mention? if you are talking about me here, i don’t comment as much as you and i told you when you air you’re dirty laundry in public here its our business. if you don’t like that too bad get another hobby besides flapping you’re lips. you accuse gypsy of causing fights but really its you
maybe you should read mandee cause you said it irks you that gypsy always has to fight with someone but your the one doin the fighting. the she gypsy refered to was Jo-anne and why would i be delusional cause of what gypsy thinks?you don’t make sense here. so who do you think i sound like now mandee? before it was nancy so who now? your caught using double standards and your onlly defence for airing your dirty laundry is to tell others to mind there own business and throw insults. you tell you’re life on a public site and you deserve what you get just like you think women who stay in abusive relationship deserve it.
i still want you to explain the “double standard” funny, i have already “called you on it,and you never got back to ME at all!!” and yes, it does irk me that gypsy fights with me and joanne over things that have no reason to be a fight. everyone agrees, abuse is wrong. you are the one still dragging up my family, long after we stopped talking about them. im sure you dont need me to tell you WHO YOU ARE. we all know. its pretty clear. 🙂 nice try though. and last time i checked, someone sharing a personal story with someone and people attacking that person over their life, isnt the same as being stupid enough to stay in an abusive relationship. and if it is, well then…arent you just as bad as any man or woman that abuses their partner? so, technically, YOU are the bad guy here. i wonder how many of your partners youve abused? you can say none, but i dont believe it for one second with the way you personally attack someone for their life. hmmm…i wonder who does that?
actually YOU are the one “twist and twist”. and, theres no double standard, i apologized to gypsy for the misunderstanding. YOU are the one looking to fight considering YOU felt the need to talk s*hit about my mother. funny, i wasnt talking about gypsys family, or your family now was i? no, i never said anything rude until you started to go on and on. and “lots of people here dont like you guys and are sick of how bad you treat people.” ?? hmm, funny the only person i see that has a problem with “US” right now, is you because we disagree with how rude and arrogant you are. i would LOVE for tribute to get rid of all the idiots around here, too bad youd be the first to go. “stop calling people names and telling them to shut up and mind there own busness and stuff” well, first of all, until you learn how to spell correctly, nothing you say is going to be significant to me or anyone else that posts here. second, this is a FREE GOSSIP site, so dont try to tell me to “stop” anything. i have my right to an opinion and i plan to tell my opinion, if you like it or not. YOU have a double standard here yourself, telling me i have no right disagreeing with people because they are allowed an opinion, then telling me im not allowed an opinion because its different from yours? give your head a shake, my name is MANDEE not SHAUNA so i do not have to look at things the same way you do. and no, you didnt explain the double standard you were originally talking about, given the fact when you first started talking about it, it was about my family not about me and gypsy.
yes, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE USE IT….
MANDEE the comment above at 11.23 NOT DIRECTED AT YOU.SHE KNOW’S WHO I’M TALKING ABOUT ONLY HER AND HER ALONE.
i wasn’t insulting you’re mom mandee not intentionaly anyway, ive told you lots i was trying to show you’re double standard cuz of what i read you say to nancy and then you think people beleive your stories all over the place? you say you’re mom had the older brother before you’re dad then had you’re sister with you’re dad but wasnt with him. musta been a one nighter? and if he stayed for 9 month then he didnt stop abusing suddenly. then she left had other brother with someone else and biologicle clock ticked really fast so she call you’re dad and say hey baby come over and slap me a bit and wel’l make a baby to be a sister to the other one but you can only have one nighter cuz you abuse me.ya right!! he stayed longer then one night and we’re not stupid enough to believe those stories!! she’s no better then Mrs Jackson or nancy thats all im saying so don’t make her to be a saint.im not saying she’s bad but not any better than Mrs Jackson and Jo-anne and demigod go on bout you’re mom being so good a good role model and you put Mrs Jackson and other abuse women down.thats what im meaning here.
well, i never made her out to be a saint. obviously she stayed with him for a while or else he wouldnt have abused her, im the only kid she had from a “one night stand” she was told she was only allowed to have babies for another 17 months after my brother was born, (she found out when she had about 10 months or something) because she had a lot of problems with each baby, so she called my dad and got pregnant with me, and didnt see him again until i was 5. he didnt even know if i was a boy or girl or my name until i was a week old and he called to find out. i have never claimed my mom to be a saint, i said at least she got out, it wasnt me that started the “good role model” conversation. and about what i say to nancy, i say it to intentionally piss her off because she talks sh*it about my entire family, so i should have the right to pick on hers. the difference is, im not psycho enough to actually MEAN what i say to nancy, and ive told her that before.
i only mention nancy as part of my example, mostly its what you said about Mrs Jackson and other abuse woman. no one deserves it even if they stay
I agree no one deserve’s to be abused in any way.Every situtation in a home is different,an all woman are not the same.We all have a different way to handle our own problem’s,and react to abuse in a different way.Many woman don’t even know that being ridiculed,shouted at and getting put down for the way they cook,clean or look after their children is a different form of abuse.I know a friend of mine who did take her kid’s and leave her husband.She got a place of her own with her kid’s and for 9 month’s they were very happy.Her and another friend went out one night to a hotel to party, well her ex was their, so she left and went to a house party.While she was there the ex showed up,she happened to be in the bathroom pukeing ,nobody told her that he’d showed up.Her ex went into the kitchen and took a knife out of the drawer,nobody stopped him ,he went up to the bathroom and as she was bent over the toilet he stabbed her 11 time’s each time saying I love you.He dropped the knife and left the house.She was in ICU for 3 week’s in critical condition, had surgery to save her life.It was so bad that her mom brought the 2 kid’s in to see her just incase she didn’t make it, they were 9 and 7 year’s old at the time.I told this story to make a point, did she deserve it did the kid’s deserve it no way!!!.SHE hasn’t been the same person ever since it happened and neither have the kid’s and this happened 20 year’s ago.Her ex was found and charged but there was a deal made and he only got 3 month’s jail time.Now was justice done NO way not in my opinion,or in many other’s that knew her.So you see leaving didn’t make any difference in her case and many other’s I know that have left there abuser.
well, there is a way to leave without him finding you and following you and getting close enough to harm you. if that had of been me, when he showed up at the first place i was drinking, i would have went home and locked my doors. clearly if they abuse you they are mentally incapable of realizing that murdering you is wrong. why would you stay out and go somewhere else? he can follow you, if he followed her home the locks would have kept him out and she could have called the police while he was trying to get in. there are many ways to get out of a bad situation without being stabbed. she left right? so no, i dont think she deserved to be stabbed, now had she of stayed and this situation happened, it would have been her own fault for not realizing that abuse does eventually lead to other violent crimes (such as rape, murder, disfigurement etc). if youre dumb enough to stay until the abuse escalates, i do not have one shred of sympathy or one ounce of regret for you. as an adult, or a human being you should KNOW abuse is wrong. i dont care how you were brought up etc, there are no excuses for letting another person put their hands on you in a violent manner, and to stay and allow it to happen constantly is just plain sickening.
She left because of mental abuse not physical.Her ex moved in another woman 1 week later.The court’s ordered her to give him access to children every second weekend.He did not show any anomosity toward’s her at all in the entire 9 month’s. He was still living with same woman at the time she was stabbed by him. He gave her no reason to fear him,as he was so happy with his new girlfriend.He had no record at all and that’s why the charge’s were dropped down from attemped murder to assult causing bodily harm.That’s why he got a light sentence.If she had went home instead of going to house party, he would have kicked the door in and done the exact same thing to her,the only difference being the children would have witnesed this horrific scene.There was no phone at her home so she couldn’t have called police even if she had wanted to.The neighbour had no phone either,she was single parent also, so if 30 people at house party didn’t stop him neither could of single mom living next door.By not going home she may of saved her kid’s from getting stabbed as well,His lawyer stated in court, he was drunk and just snapped he did not do it intentually!
“He gave her no reason to fear him” well, this sentence certainly contradicts when you said she had no reason to fear him “he would have kicked the door in and done the exact same thing to her” also, again, i didnt say THAT was HER fault, she left him so she made an attempt to better her life. i believe a lot of women stay in these relationships purely for the sympathy vote they get from everyone else in the world. how can someone have children and not have any type of a phone? not even a cell phone? thats irresponsible if you ask me, what if something happens to one of the kids and she needs an ambulance? how does she plan to get her kids to the hospital in time to save them? perhaps the other 30 people at the party were too drunk to realize what he was doing or too caught up in their own fun they didnt see him. that being said, what about those people that didnt stop that man from sawing some guys head off on a greyhound bus? clearly, no one in this world gives a crap about others and no one is safe.
This happened 22year’s ago,welfare and mother’s allowance barely gave woman enough to pay rent and buy food for the kid’s.The phone was considered a luxury by them.I never knew anyone who had a cell phone back then either.I guess if there was an emergency with the kid’s she would of done the same thing i did when my son stopped breathing,ran to the nearest house and pounded till they woke up and asked them to call 911.No she did not work cuz her dad had cancer and she looked after him while her mom worked.He passed away about 1 month before her ex stabbed her.Your right nobody cares about anyone anymore.
Hopefully welfare is still as small a payment as it was 22 years ago — that money that welfare recipients get is coming out of my pocket and the pockets of every other hard working person out there. I’ve had to take on a second job in addition to my full time one just to pay my taxes and other assorted bills and I haven’t been able to afford to have a phone for years.
kim, i can understand what youre saying. the thing with welfare is, they wont help the people that NEED it. i lost my job and i need my wisdom teeth out, my mouth is too small so they are growing out through the sides of my gums and making my whole jaw hurt and ache and causing headaches etc, they wont even help me get them out. if you have had a job, welfare simply refuses to help you.
gypsy, oh yeah i forgot it was years ago, sorry.
Mandee it’s ok i thought that you may have forgotten this happened many years ago. I don’t know where you live but here in the fall’s they’ve got a health bus that go’s to 2 different area’s twice a week and they help anyone with any health or dential problem’s even if the person doesn’t have a health card. There is also a special need’s number that the welfare gives to people who need help, that they don’t cover and this organizion help’s with teeth problem’s and medical device’s not covered and many other needs that welfare, mothers allowance and disibilty will not cover.Even if your working and not makeing enough to cover your expences they will help people. The only thing is when you call welfare you have to ask for the special needs number, as they don’t tell you about it, if you dont specificly ask.There are also dentists who do work for free every 3 months for those who can’t afford it.Mandee do you have what they call inpacted wisdom teeth, cuz if you do that is very painful. If you live in ont. there must be someone who can help you.I wish you luck,nobody should have to live with that much pain.
yes i think thats what they call it. i dont have the money to even get xrays done to be sure. when i was 16 they said they HAD TO have them out by 19, but then they never got around to it and my parents health coverage no longer covered me when i hit 19. also, thats amazing, no i did not know about any of that stuff. where i live the only way you can get social assistance or ANY KIND OF HELP is if you were ALWAYS a bum or a crack head or a teenaged mother. they dont care about any of the working class, welfare and ontario works both told me that because i was making 500 a month at my last job they didnt have to help me because they are only required if you make under 500. well, when i lost my job and had NO MONEY they still refused to help me. sure wish i lived where you do 😛
Mandee if you live in ontario you should get in touch with your M.P. and explain your circumstances.I believe they are giving you the runaround.I also found out if a dentist will send you to a dential specialist they remove all 4 in the hospital and it’s covered by OHIP. I hope this help’s you get some result’s.
dental work might be done at your comunity college too for free or really cheap by student dentist and asistants. supervised by there teacher who is a dentist of course
i contacted the schools, they only do cleaning 🙁 im not sure about the contacting the mp. i wouldnt know where to begin or anything.
Mandee you just find out who the M.P. is for your area give them a call,explain to the secretary what your problem is.NO MONEY, teeth are hurting causing headaches and you probably have sore ears and pain in jaw also.Tell them that you contacted welfare,and they turned you down,also tell them you are in extreme pain from impacted teeth,with such severe head, ear and neck pain that is stopping you from being able to work.Tell them exactly what you did to obtain help ,then ask if there is anything they can do for you at all,don’t leave anything out.I believe they refused you cuz you live at home and expect your parents to look after you. Not true,you could also tell them that your parents want board money meaning food costs and you should be eligible for that also.Don’t back down from welfare thats what its there for to HELP ANYONE who needs it.If i’m getting to personal forgive me ,I just get pissed when they push younger people around.Remember if anyone in your family works parents, siblings, uncles, aunts etc and you also. You all had tax’s taken out of your cheques to go to social assistance to help.Now look at it this way ,if anyone is paying tax’s in your family,their tax money can now help you, so your not takeing anything that you or a relative has not paid into.I hope this makes sense the way i’ve explained it.I learned that in the 60’s don’t back down from anything or anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks, and no youre not getting too personal. i get pissed too when they dont help out people that deserve it. its ridiculous. ill look into it and let you know what happens.
mandee, your MP is Colin Carrie, the phone number is 905-440-4868, call him! Tell them exactly what you’ve told us! You won’t get right through to him, likely, but give all the info to his assistant, and ask that he, or someone check into it for you, and get back to you! Remember, you are a voter and he wants the voters on his side, so he is on your side, just tell them what you told us, and ask them to look into it and to find you some help! That’s what they are there for!
thanks ! 😀 ive had other people offer to help me on here before, and then never actually bothered to get me any info. so thanks again 🙂
Yeah, actually I remember that, and I kept asking her about it, but….nothing.
Anyway, no problem, I hope the info helps, I hope Mr Carrie’s office can help you out, that’s what they are there for, good luck!